Tuesday, October 1, 2013

A Common Sense Look At the Pre-trib Rapture

Written By: Gail Green

I hope this article will force common sense to prevail where absolute scripture always fails concerning the pre-trib rapture. There is  more danger to believing in a pre-trib rapture than most think. If a person is to believe that Jesus comes before the tribulation then they must accept many other lies constructed to enforce that false belief. The purpose of this commentary will be to show a few examples of how someone has to throw out common sense and embrace irrational arguments to hold to the pre-trib rapture theory.  I hope what is said here will bring at least one person to the truth of the matter because when a person trust in the information surrounding the pre-trib rapture they are putting their confidence in a mountain of lies allowing themselves to be deceived. 

There are three things a person HAS TO ACCEPT AS TRUTH in order to hold a pre-trib point of view:
  1. The Tribulation Saints are not part of the Church/Bride/Body of Christ
  2. The Tribulation Saints do not participate in the Marriage supper of the Lamb
  3. The Tribulation Saints do not participate at the Bema seat judgment.

If a person is to hold a pre-trib point of view it is imperative to believe that when the rapture happens all those who have died in Christ over the last two thousand years will be resurrected and those who are alive and remain will be caught up with them in the air, go up to heaven, stand before Christ at the Bema seat, and after the crowns are handed out the Bride and the Groom will be married and celebrate at the marriage supper of the Lamb; And while all the “true Christians” are getting rewarded and their bellies full, millions of Johnny come latelys are being martyred.

Those Johnny come latelys are the “Tribulation Saints” and it seems (according to the pre-trib theory) that even though they give their life for Christ they don't rank up there with the “true Christians” because they weren't saved before the rapture. Since they were left behind they are seriously penalized. Unlike all those Martyrs before them they won't be participating in the Bema Judgment, the Wedding, or the Marriage Supper of the Lamb. As far as I know pre-tribbers teach there are two judgments: the Bema seat judgment where the Body/Bride/Church are judged and the Great White Throne Judgment where the wicked is judged. If I'm not mistaken in thinking that then I must ask: when do the “Tribulation Saints” get their rewards if the Bema judgment for Christians happens while they are being killed and the Great White Throne judgment is for the unsaved? 

Church Not Mentioned in Most of the book of Revelation?

One of the most unfounded arguments made by pre-tribbers is that the Church is not mentioned in most of Revelation and therefore what is said between chapters four and nineteen referring to the saints is not talking about the Church. The Saints in those chapters are some alienated group of folks (until chapter nineteen then they become the raptured church) who are going to endure great tribulation while us perfect peoples get married, eat a lot, and collect our rewards at the Bema seat judgment. I don't mean to sound disdainful but that is the way it sounds to me when a pre-tribber boast they will be in heaven having supper and living it up while millions of their brothers and sisters are suffering on earth. Honestly, does it seem logical to you that millions of people will die for Christ during the tribulation and they will not be part of the Bride or participate in the marriage supper of the Lamb?

What is a Saint anyway? 

“Strong's Concordance” #G40: hagios—adjective: most holy thing, a saint. 'Thayer's Greek Lexicon” gives us a little more insight:(2) SET APART FOR GOD, TO BE, AS IT WERE, EXCLUSIVELY HIS. So this appellation is very often in the N.T. Transferred to Christians, as those whom God has selected, that under the influence of the Holy Spirit they may be rendered, through holiness, PARTAKERS OF SALVATION IN THE KINGDOM OF GOD: http://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/Lexicon/Lexicon.cfm?strongs=G40&t=KJV

Eph. 1:1-2—Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, TO THE SAINTS which are at Ephesus and TO THE FAITHFUL IN CHRIST Jesus: Grace be to you, and peace, from God our Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ. 

Eph. 4:10-13—He that descended is the same also that ascended up above all heavens, that he might fulfill all things. And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers; For the PERFECTING OF THE SAINTS, for the work of the ministry, FOR THE EDIFYING OF THE BODY OF CHRIST.  


In the preceding verses we have the saints referred to as: the faithful in Christ, the body of Christ, and those who keep the commandments of God. Undeniably in the New Testament the saints are people who follow Christ (His body/bride/church); they are the partakers of the kingdom of God. With that in mind I would think it is safe to conclude that throughout Revelation when the word saint is used it means God's people: the Church, but for more edification let's look a little deeper.

The word church is used thirteen times in the Book of Revelation. The first time is in John's greeting and the second time is when Jesus told John to write what he sees in A Book and send IT to the seven churches. Understandably the same message (the Revelation) was to be given to the Christians who attended the brick and mortar churches of Asia. Seven of the times the word churches is used it is to say, “He who has an ear let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches.” When Jesus says “He who has an ear let him hear” he is talking to individual people telling them that they need to pay attention to what he is saying and those individual’s are you and me. The word church(s) is not used in chapter nineteen but according to pre-tribbers (as I pointed out earlier) the word saints miraculously becomes the church to return triumphantly with Jesus to rule and reign for a thousand years. All instances of the word churches that are in Revelation are in chapters 1, 2, and 3 except for the last time it is used and that is in Rev. 22:16—I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto YOU THESE THINGS IN THE CHURCHES. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star. 



In conclusion we have established that if a person is a saint (even in the book of Revelation) they are followers of Jesus and common sense tells us that when that person becomes a follower of Jesus it is at that moment they become part of the body, bride, and church of Christ. It doesn't make sense that part of the body of Christ will not be involved with  the marriage supper of the Lamb, or that they would not receive their rewards, not to mention resurrected body, along with the rest of the Martyrs from times past.  I pray that if you are a pre-trib believer reading this you see the logic and realize that these are just a few of the lies that one must believe in order to protect the idea of a pre-trib rapture.

What you believe about the timing of the rapture has nothing to do with if you are saved or not but that doesn't mean that it isn't important. As a Christian it is your duty to know the truth (study to show yourself approved) and if you believe one lie then you have to believe other lies to substantiate that lie and believe me there are many many lies that are used to back up the pre-trib rapture. Please think about this, there is only one truth; there is either going to be a pre-trib rapture or there's not. Me? I really don't care as long as I know the truth: Amen?

Many Blessings to YOU!!!


colin said...

Your article is very good, and does indeed point out some glaring errors in the pre-trib rapture theory. But, rest assured, those who defend this false doctrine, will, with great zeal 'explain' away these issues you raise in a pre-trib 'scholarly' way, be assured of that?
They are faithful in defending a false doctrine, rather than what the Bible plainly teaches?
Your last paragraph raises an interesting question; salvation. Now, God's Word clearly states that a man (or a woman!) will be judged on what he or she knew, James 3.1 KJV, and other judgment passages in the Gospels, and so whereas, I agree with you that a correct understanding of eschatology is NOT a pre-requisite to one's salvation, but, as believers we are admonished not to be deceived, Matthew 24.4 KJV etc?
There are some, who are "pan tribbers", I believe David Wilkerson, was one such, who say "it will all pan out alright in the end"! This may sound good to some, but why all the many specific warnings about deception?

Now I must buy some sunglasses so I can read your rather flashy and bright chart!!!

colin said...

I forgot to say that when I have attended certain Christian youth conferences, I hear many preach; "the Lord could come before I finish preaching this sermon!" or "before tea time" etc. And this is to children, young adults etc. This subliminal process will, I believe, indoctrinate such into accepting the false pre trib doctrine?
I have come to believe that many teach the so-called unBiblical "doctrine of immanency", without any understanding of eschatology; they just pass on what they have been taught. This false doctrine, just sounds right? I mean, God is God, the Creator of the heavens and the earth? He can come back when He wants? But this thinking negates the fact that His Word says otherwise! God will NOT break His Word, His Second Coming WILL be according to His Word.

Gail said...

Hi Colin,

Thanks for the compliment! You are so right that folks will try and explain it away. Thomas at DTW come up with some real interesting arguments that are so off the wall. I couldn't believe some of the stuff he said. I still need to get back with him, it's been over a month now.

So true, the Lord warns us so many times about deception and it amazes me how people can accept some of the ridiculous arguments made to defend the pre-trib rapture. In my last paragraph I tried to make the point that the truth is what is important above all else in hopes that folks will think about that and study to show themselves approved.

Can you believe I talked to a man a few weeks ago (a Christian) and he said he had never heard of the Rapture? I thought I was going to faint! Lol.

You are so right when you say people teach the “doctrine of immanency' and don't understand the first thing about eschatology and that they pass on what they heard. I have seen that so many times.

I listen to Chuck Missler for a minute yesterday (just because) and he blew my mind. He says that Matthew 24 and Mark 13 are not the same as Luke 21: What??? He said that Matt. 24 and Mark 13 were taught in the day time and that Luke’s version was a total different thing and it was taught in the night time. Where do they come up with this stuff? There has never been anything in the Bible that was so clear: Matt. 24, Mark 13, and Luke 21 are different writings about the same day. Anyone that can read would know that?

So, my chart is bright huh? Lol. I pulled up the original I was going to tone it down a bit but undoubtedly I didn't save some changes I made before posting it so it will take a little more work that I thought but I will get that done so it won't be so hard on the eyes; sorry about that. So let me know what you think.

It was really nice to hear from you!!! I guess your new address on the globe is Glasgow, Glasgow City or are you United Kingdom? I thought about it the other day that I don't know when you are on there because you moved and I forgot to ask what you would come under the last time we talked.

God Bless!!!!!!!!!!

colin said...

I am currently resident in a very small island about 300 miles north of Glasgow. I notice, however, that when I look on your "live traffic feed"/globe that I register as "United Kingdom", I believe it is our friend James that is from Glasgow.
Your chart is a wonderful work of art! I always used to criticize pre tribbers because of their charts and diagrams! As you well know they need these elaborate charts in order to explain their extravagant theories? I realise that our God is a God of perfection and order, and that there is some kind of design and numerical/mathematical order to everything, though I cannot claim to understand it:
For my benefit and others that log on here (please do tone your chart down a bit!) can you please explain how the generally accepted age of the earth and man; 6,000 years (by Bible believers) can be reconciled by the Jewish calendar of years which I think is 5774, which leaves us 226 years short?
Sorry for asking a silly question? (The day I stop asking silly questions, may be the day I stop asking any questions?)
Another thing, yes this judgment issue that you raised, needs to be expanded upon? Pre tribulationism raises far, far, more questions than answers? There is what? One or two judgments?
The problem, as you well know, with pre tribulationism, which is an outworking of a theology known as Dispensationalism is their desire to separate Israel from the Church; this errant doctrine is not Biblical; it creates two separate people groups, and thus two separate modes of deliverance.

May God bless your efforts.

Gail said...

Hi Colin,

I'm gonna get on that chart in just a bit :)

That's sounds so nice “very small island”. The only Island I've ever seen is the one I live on and it's not exactly “small”. Lol!!!

If it's not you that is Glasgow then it must be James (Hey James I know you are reading this lol). I thought that was probably him but I wasn't sure if maybe it was you was registering as that too.

I appreciate questions so it's no problem and certainly not silly to ask but of course I can't answer them all and this is one of them that I can't answer but I can say this; I have learned in my studies that God don't necessarily keep the whole of a time frame he says: the Babylonian captivity was to last seventy years and actually ended a year and a half before the seventieth year would have been counted as expired so it could be that God will cut the 6000 years a little short?

What the pre-tribbers don't understand is that there is only the good and the bad there is no ugly. There are the sheep and the goats, the wheat and the tares, The wise virgins and the not so wise virgins; when the wise virgins enter in and the door is closed, it's over, there will be no second chance like the pre-tribbers concede when they say people will be getting saved during the tribulation after Jesus has gathered his own in the rapture. When Jesus gathers what is his it will include the people who are saved before and during the tribulation.

I always understood by the things my daddy would tell me that there are two versions of Bible truth, God's version and the devil's version and I often wondered how one would know the difference. I must say (again I”m sure) since I have learned about the teachings of dispensation that question has been answered. Not only does dispensation divide the Church from Israel it divides the Bible into four to seven era's take your pick, when the only definite division of time I can see is from Old Testament to the New Testament. Dispensation also divides the seven churches into seven periods of time. So its like this: those who are going to be raptured live in the dispensation of “The Church of Philadelphia” and the dispensation of the Laodicean Church will suffer the tribulation/wrath of God. So the period of time when the Christians are neither hot nor cold doesn't start until after the rapture, hummmm somebody needs to tell the world and another thing how could millions be saved at a time that everybody is on the fence i.e. neither hot nor cold? Just a thought.

Jesus named those particular churches because at that time in history they were doing the things he said but in the big picture all Christians individually or as a group (a congregation) live the way the people of those churches did. In our world today there are those Christians who are neither hot nor cold and there are those who keep the word of the Lord's patience. How can someone assume they fit the description of a person who went to the church of Philadelphia and that they are worthy to escape the hour of temptation? We are told to pray always that we may be accounted worthy to escape ALL those things that are to come upon the earth. I take that as don't assume you will escape all those things but pray that you will. I pray that I am worthy to escape all those things but if is the will of God for me to endure tribulations now or then, so be it: even so come Lord Jesus!!!

Have a very happy (blessed) day!!!

Gail said...

Hi Colin,

I tone that chart down a bit. Let me know if it helped you out. I want people to be able to read it comfortably or it ain't no good. lol


colin said...

Your chart is much, much easier on the eye, it is a great, and much needed improvement. Thank you!!
I will now try and make sense of it, and if I find fault with it, I will let you know!
The answer you gave me regarding reconciling the Biblical Christian calculation of the age of man (6000 years according to the Biblical genealogical accounts and hence the earth) and the Jewish calendar, somewhat falls short of what I believe some would expect diligent students of God's Word to come up with? I believe it was Arch Bishop Usher who did much work on this. Is it something to do with the fact that we Westerners have 365 days in a year and the OT nation of Israel had 360 days? I am not good with maths, but those extra 5 days a year over the history of the earth could make the difference? Now where is my calculator...?

James said...

Hi Gail and Colin,thaanks for the mention and yes i do live in Glasgow.Welcome to bonnie Scotland Colin. To comment,i as a relatively new bible believing christian i have came to the conclusion that the pre trib rapture is false doctrine,i have been educated firstly by the scriptures but also by thought provoking blogs like this one,to come to my conclusion on the matter.Keep up the good work Gail.My pastor called Michael Mckeever on sunday did an excellent teaching on the blood red moons and end time matters,if your interested Colin and Gail it is available to listen to,at New Mercy Intrenational church Glasgow,go on to Net sermon,and listen to The Great apostacy.Cheers..

Gail said...

Hi Colin,

You are so very welcome! I did have an idea it might have been a little hard to read but I wasn't sure if maybe it was my eyes playing tricks on me. Lololol Anyway I''m glad it's easier to look at now. And I'm sure if you find more fault with it you WILL LET ME KNOW! Lololol. I appreciate you letting me know; sometimes we need somebody from the outside looking in to straighten us out? Thanks!!!

I'm sorry I disappointed you with my answer it wasn't all that well thought out. I have not looked at the 6000 years specifically so I didn't want to elaborate on it but in regards to what you said about the 360 days and such I do know that God counts his months starting with the new moon. That being the first day of the month doesn't always fall in an exact time frame of thirty days. The Jews keep their calendar by the moon today so that they can keep God's feasts days at the proper time and they may have a month of 29 days or 30 days; by the end of the year there can be either 354, 353 or 355 days. On certain years (seven times in a nineteen year period) there is an extra month added and the length of the year may be 383, 384, or 385 days 2013-2014 = 385 days); I'm sure the moon has always come and went as it does now so I would think that even in those times they had months the same as they do now?

Isaiah 66:23—And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD.

There is no doubt the Lord keeps time by the Sabbath (days) and the new moons (months)?

Knowing that I broke out my calculator anyway: 6000 x 365 = 2,190,000 and 6000 x 360 days = 2,160,000 days; 2,160,000 subtracted from 2,190,000 = 30,000. 30,000 divided by 360 = 83.3 years and 30,000 divided by 365 = 82.00 years so it doesn't seem that could be the reason for being 226 years short? The only way we could figure the years exactly would be to know exactly how many days were in each year starting with the very first year? Which by the way negates Sir Robert Anderson's exact calculations of the seventy weeks?

I hope my recent answer is up to par with an answer that you would expect to come from a diligent student of God's word?

God Bless!!!

colin said...

Thanks for that. I have read and referred to Sir Robert Anderson's work many, many, times, but I must confess that I have stumbled at trying to figure out his calculations. I often wonder if it is at all a fruitful study? Having said that, I find if you leave a subject on the back-burner, sometimes a solution can come out of nowhere?
An eminently more learned man than me (mathematically, at least!) debunked his work, I believe on the basis that Anderson in his calculations confused lunar and solar years together.
I believe most weighty scholars agree with James Ussher's landmark calculations, which dates Creation at 4000 BC. So on this basis a 1000 year Sabbath/Millennium cannot be too far away?
But, I think it impossible that any human being can know for certain?

Gail said...

Hi James,

I apologize for your comment not being posted earlier. I didn't see it for some reason before the other two were posted.

It is good to hear from you and it's even better to hear that you have thrown out the pre-trib rapture theory!!! You have no idea how happy that makes me and it makes me even more happy to know that I may have helped you come to that conclusion: God has surely blessed me today!!! Now, I'm about to go and watch that video you recommended: Thanks!

Many Blessings!!!

Irv said...

[Right on, Gail. Saw this on the net. Enjoy.]


Many evangelicals believe that Christ will "rapture" them to heaven years before the second coming and (most importantly) well BEFORE Antichrist and his "tribulation." But Acts 2:34, 35 reveal that Jesus is at the Father's right hand in heaven until He leaves to destroy His earthly foes at the second coming. And Acts 3:21 says that Jesus “must” stay in heaven with the Father "until the times of restitution of all things” which includes, says Scofield, “the restoration of the theocracy under David’s Son” which obviously can’t begin before or during Antichrist’s reign. See also Heb. 10:12, 13. ("The Rapture Question," by longtime No. 1 pretrib expert John Walvoord, didn't dare to even list, in its scripture index, the above Acts verses! They were also too hot for John Darby - the so-called "father of dispensationalism" - to list in the scripture index in his "Letters"!)
Paul explains the “times and the seasons” (I Thess. 5:1) of the catching up (I Thess. 4:17) as the “day of the Lord” (5:2) which FOLLOWS the posttrib sun/moon darkening (Matt. 24:29; Acts 2:20) WHEN “sudden destruction” (5:3) of the wicked occurs! The "rest" for "all them that believe" is also tied to such destruction in II Thess. 1:6-10! (If the wicked are destroyed before or during the trib, who'd be left alive to serve the Antichrist?) Paul also ties the change-into-immortality “rapture” (I Cor. 15:52) to the end of trib “death” (15:54). (Will death be ended before or during the trib? Of course not! And vs. 54 is also tied to Isa. 25:8 which Scofield views as Israel's posttrib resurrection!) It's amazing that the Olivet Discourse contains the "great commission" for the church but not even a hint of a pretrib rapture for the church!
Many don't know that before 1830 all Christians had always viewed I Thess. 4’s “catching up” as an integral part of the final second coming to earth. In 1830 this "rapture" was stretched forward and turned into an idolized separate coming of Christ. To further strengthen their novel view, which evangelical scholars overwhelmingly rejected throughout the 1800s, pretrib teachers in the early 1900s began to stretch forward the “day of the Lord” (what Darby and Scofield never dared to do) and hook it up with their already-stretched-forward “rapture.” Many leading evangelical scholars still weren’t convinced of pretrib, so pretrib teachers then began teaching that the “falling away” of II Thess. 2:3 is really a pretrib rapture (the same as saying that the “rapture” in 2:3 must happen before the “rapture” ["gathering"] in 2:1 can happen – the height of desperation!). Google "Walvoord Melts Ice" for more on this, and also Google "Pretrib Rapture Pride."
Other Google articles on the 183-year-old pretrib rapture view include “X-Raying Margaret,” "Margaret Macdonald's Rapture Chart," "Pretrib Rapture's Missing Lines," "Edward Irving is Unnerving," "The Unoriginal John Darby," "Catholics Did NOT Invent the Rapture," "The Real Manuel Lacunza," “Thomas Ice (Bloopers),” “Wily Jeffrey,” “The Rapture Index (Mad Theology),” “America’s Pretrib Rapture Traffickers,” “Roots of (Warlike) Christian Zionism,” “Scholars Weigh My Research,” “Pretrib Hypocrisy,” "Appendix F: Thou Shalt Not Steal," "Pretrib Rapture Secrecy," “Deceiving and Being Deceived,” "Pretrib Rapture Dishonesty," "Famous Rapture Watchers," and "Morgan Edwards' Rapture View" – most by the author of the bestselling book “The Rapture Plot” (the most accurate and documented book on pretrib rapture history which is obtainable by calling 800.643.4645).
PS - For some final shocks Yahoo or Google "The Background Obama Can't Cover Up" and "Franklin Graham's Warning."

Irv said...

Speaking of Scotland, Google has an interesting item titled "More Facts About Margaret Macdonald" by journalist Dave MacPherson who has researched there and is convinced that she originated the pretrib rapture view. Fascinating!

Gail said...

Thanks Irv I will check that out. God Bless!!!